Rangers of the North: too good!

[mrweasely]

I'm sorry, Rangers of the North is just too good.

A typical FP reinforcement card works at only one location. Then it gives you either 1.5 musters, or 1.0 musters and a free strategy card.

Rangers of the North gives 1.5 musters, takes away 0.5 musters from The Enemy, and works in a huge area.

Faramir's McRangers only points towards Mordor. RotN has a 360-degree firing arc.

I don't remember what the combat effect is, but this card is definately not being used for combat it the Shadow has 6 or fewer VP. It's rediculously good.

RotN is best of all when stacked with King Brand's Men^TM and/or Grimbeorn the Old, Son of Beorn the Older.

The game designers seem to have been of two minds on card design. One camp thought power and applicability were mutually exclusive. Thus Dead Men of Dunharrow and The Last Battle which are potentially awesome, but useless in 75% of games they're drawn in.

Another school of thought created cards of obviously unequal power - compare A New Power is Rising (awesome card) to, say, Monsters Roused or Return of the Witch King (ho hum). Or Mirror of Galadriel or The Eagles are Coming are clearly weak events. This design school was hoping that the full deck of cards drawn during the course of the game would average out the good cards and the bad. And of course there's plenty of luck elsewhere in the game too.

[Veldrin]

"Rangers of the North" has a 360-degree firing arc as you say but they are almost exclusevly used in the DEW-line.

This card is so strong since the DEW-line is so weak.

The DEW-line is the most fragile area for the FP so they needed an extra card tat worked there.

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]

[mrweasely]

I agree, I guess, but its sort of an all-the-eggs-in-one-basket type situation.

The presence of the card may change Magic Geeks Preferred DEW-Sacking Tactics.

Base Game: Take Erebor & Iron Hills. Take Wooden Realm. Take 5 more VP somewhere. Then take Dale, since they can't retreat anywhere good. Then go win the game.

Twilight waiting around forever just gives the North more time to draw 2, or even 3, of their eastern reinforcers. After 2 reinforcers they're tough to dislodge from Dale. After 3 of them they're usually more formidable than the dwarfs or elves...if they can find the time to get to war.

[Veldrin]

I agree, if I had managed to get the North to war in our last game Dale would have been a tough nut for you to crack.

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]

[Veldrin]

Galadriel is a Character so she can stay in Lorien without any army units but if Lorien falls to the Shadow she is eliminated.

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]

[SevenSpirits]

Does that mean that she is allowed to stay behind in Lorien while other units retreat to Parth Celebrant? Or is she eliminated if her army tries to retreat on her?

In a normal case this wouldn't matten because the Shadow would move into Lorien, but it's concievable that they would choose not to advance any units in.

[Veldrin]

As the rules are written she is eliminated only once the Shadow captures Lorien.

Normally a Character couldn't choose to stay behind when the army s/he leads retreats but since Galadriel can't leave Lorien I guees she is the exception that proves the rule.

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]

[mrweasely]

Good post.

magicgeek said:

Every single 'special thing' happens in Fanghorn and south.

North of Fanghorn is 12 VP.
South of Fanghorn is 8 VP.

Trying to compare North against South just doesn't work because there is nothing in the north to compare. NOTHING. It is not like there is a path of woses from Bree to Carrock.

Point taken. (But have you ever actually played Paths of the Woses? I'm not sure I have.)

Even the basic reinforcement cards are biased.
All the South reinforcements are Elite + Leader.
The North reinforcements are just weaker.

Not in Wizardry, because they sometimes advance the political track as side effect. (sorry for the off-topic shameless plug for Wizardry)

Every Elf reinforce is half strength and draw a card.
Well, except the Grey Havens one, and that is because it mostly appears in the south. The full strength Dwarf one stands out.

As does Grimbeorn but of course its weak because you have to move Grimey to get any use out of him.
But King Brand's Men^TM is very good, since it adds 2 hits and 2 dice to Dale, and gets a card. That's my pick for best northern reinforcer, over the dwarfs. And obviously, New Power Rangers surpasses dwarfs it.

Swords in Eriador is my call for strongest Free card.
(I know everyone disagrees with me, what's new?)

We disagree. ;D

...

And Eagles is always good.

Heh, what part exactly is the always good part?: the incredibly hard to furfill pre-conditions? The low actual yield in dead Nazzies? The fact that it doesn't even scare off the Witch King? Really, its benefits are amazing. So why do I keep discarding it?

The New Rangers card is exactly what is needed. It creates a seed army, like Dead Men, but, it does not force a retreat.
There needs to be at least two more cards like the New Power Rangers card.

"Needs" is a strong word, I'm not qualified to judge what either side "needs" at this point, but I suspect you're right.

Note that if the SP is chumpy enough to get the Balrog, or in Wizardry, There and Back Again is much stronger than before.

[SevenSpirits]

magicgeek said:

Every single 'special thing' happens in Fanghorn and south.

North of Fanghorn is 12 VP.
South of Fanghorn is 8 VP.

Trying to compare North against South just doesn't work because there is nothing in the north to compare. NOTHING. It is not like there is a path of woses from Bree to Carrock.

Even the basic reinforcement cards are biased.
All the South reinforcements are Elite + Leader.
The North reinforcements are just weaker.

Here's the thing - Aside from Dol Guldur, the Shadow's forces in the North are sparse as well. The northern points are farther away from the stronger Shadow armies. When you attack Gondor and are pushed back, you don't care because you have an entire extra 10-stack with nothing better to do, sitting just a couple spaces away.

Whereas if you attack DEW and fail, you're going to have some trouble. If you don't eradicate every last guy there, they can potentially take back all those points and erase your hard work.

I'm not saying you're going to fail when you attack DEW, but the difference between northern and southern VPs isn't as big as you make it out to be.

Anyway, you can't tell me Helm's Deep, Pelargir and Dol Amroth are well-defended. They are all easy targets too, in their own way. Their proximity to your large armies is counterbalanced by the fact that you wake up some angry FP guys when you attack them.

[Goodgulf the Grey]

Note that if the SP is chumpy enough to get the Balrog

I like mustering the Balrog in many situations -- Does that make me a Chump?


I agree that RotN is a strong card but it serves a key role in making the SP consider the DEW line (or sometimes the Shire/Havens) more of a threat which is good.

With the expansion no particular FP area is ALWAYS weak (except maybe Rivendell but it takes a great deal of effort for 2 VPs and is not near other VP opportunities). Sure sometimes DEW will not get reinforcement cards and will fall easily but this will not happen every game. This forces the SP to really commit to plans and does not allow the SP to make a mistake in one area or the FP will have time to dunk the ring...

[mrweasely]

goodgulf said:

Note that if the SP is chumpy enough to get the Balrog

I like mustering the Balrog in many situations -- Does that make me a Chump?

Don't pay attention to me - I don't know what I'm talking about. I do know that when I brought out the Balrog, and the FP did There and Back Again, I was sorry. I'd spent a die, and they'd spent a die, and when the dust cleared they'd gotten 6 musters.

[SevenSpirits]

magicgeek said:

Dol Amroth & Pelagir :-
Threat to the South
Grey Company
I am Boromir hear me Roar!
Cirdans ships
Dead Men
Path of Woses
Andruil

And the fact that The King and Boromir go to Gondor. No one specifically goes to DEW.
Gondor just happens to always get enormous battle gods turning up to defend it.

You know as well as I that Dead Men doesn't matter if you take Pelargir as your last action of the game. Paths of the Woses is useless. Anduril is irrelevant - it just causes guaranteed hits. Threat is rarely relevant in my experience.

Now, if your FP opponent is always sending companions to Gondor... well, duh, you want to attack in the North. Maybe your opponent needs to rethink their companion priorities, and only send Aragorn south.

Barad Dur to Dol Amroth is ONE shorter than Barad Dur to Erebor.

This is a silly comparison because you rarely send Barad-Dur to Dol Amroth. What I often do is send Barad Dur north (it's a great move as you are aware), and use the other 20 souther units to take Pelargir/DA.

Helms Deep and Edoras are AWFUL.
Ents, Companions, Lorien, Gondor, more full strength muster cards that go more places, and lots of places to muster.

I never said Edoras was nice. But HD is really easy... unless the FP are defending it hard. Again, if your opponent is pouring resources into Rohan and Gondor, then you don't attack there - that's obvious. But if you don't attack there, they should react to the metagame by not reinforcing there as much.

The VP locations aren't so far apart in value/ease of taking that FP reinforcement decisions don't change which places are good to attack.

[SevenSpirits]

Back on the topic of Rangers, it acutally used to be a bit better. You attacked a region in or adjacent to a North region, but then you got to place the Elite + Leader in ANY region next to the attacked region. So, you could attack the army in Dale, and slap the Elite + Leader down in Erebor! That was fun.

[SevenSpirits]

I assume what you are trying to say is, "You're right, in my games, the FP defend the south quite a bit, which naturally makes it quite a pain to take. I wonder why my FP player is still defending the south so much when I have been attacking just the north every game and winning that way."