How to beat a patient SP?

[hjb]

This is probably a newbie question, but I have only recently started playing WotR with my 12 year son. I usually play FP, and almost always get my posterior kicked, because I cannot seam to beat his basic strategy. This is obviously not a position a father of a 12 year old canb afford to be in , so I could sure use some help...

My son's basic strategy is, to wait with attacking even a single army, until he has mustered and moved so many armies from Mordor, the South and Isengard to the borders of Gondor and Rohan, that he can usually wipe out both nations in one or two turns. When we play the extension, this gets even worse, because SP can usually use an attack tower, which I can not afford to match, because I need to move on the political track.

The effect of his delaying strategy is, that I have to move & activate Gondor and Rohan into war all by myself, which simply takes too long.
In the mean time, he can go on creating and moving more troops, while I can only stay put in my strongholds.

By the time I can start recruiting, he will simply start an all-out attack and besiege MT and Dol Amroth immediately, so their occupance is minimal. Once the SP has conquered all of Gondor and Rohan, all he needs is one more stronghold to win. This is not too difficult, because devoting all these dice to Gondor and Rohan leaves DEW inactive and far from war, which makes it a sitting duck to any army that may have gathered in the East.


It seems to me there must be a quite simple answer to this SP waiting strategy, because I never encounter it anywhere in the forum, so it must have a flaw in it somewhere.

Moving faster with the fellowship may help, but this is risky and highly dependent on luck with the dice. Attacking SP strongholds to cause panic is obviously impossible as well in this situation.

What FP possibilities am I overlooking? Any help would be appreciated...

[Lord Aragorn]

Patient SP...
Gondor and Rohan down in 2 turns...
Are you sure you are playing this right?

Couple of tips:

-Use 1 Muster to move Gondor towards war (when he attacks Osgiliath he will activate them and move to war), now you can muster 1 Elite in Minas Tirith before siege
-You don't really need to move them all the way to war, just try to activate them and place some siege engines, he will attack and then move you to war
-Gondor and Rohan can defend for quite a long (Imrahil of Dol Amroth, Guards of the Citadel, The Grey Company & House of the Stewards, Riders of Théoden, Éomer, son of Éomund, The Red Arrow, Ent Cards and more - seems like a lot of options to me)
-Sometimes killing you siege engine can help (if you have extra muster), because he can't reduce elite to continue battle
-Using Ents can help you save Rohan and even help in Minas Tirith
-Use some companions (Aragorn and one more seems best for me)
-Don't be affraid to move FSP
-If needed Elves from Lorien can help you in Rohan (only if they are not under threat and leave at least one in Lorien)

I don't understand how does he do that muster part at the beginning, you often do not have enough Musters, so I guess it lasts for several turns.
And what is he doing with Army and Character dice?

It's hard to explain strategies or to indicate on mistakes to someone via Forum and writing, playing an online game would probably help more.

[hjb]

Lord Aragorn, thanks for your advice. Some of the tips are quite helpful in themselves, but I also realize that in general, I have probably been too limited in recognizing and using my resources and possiblities. Most of your tips rung an almost forgotten bell. I'll just have to play some more, I guess

I did not express myself quite clearly (and even incorrectly), by the way. Conquering Gondor within 1 or 2 turns is counted from the moment the attack starts, not from the start of the game. Moreover, 1-2 turns is of course an exaggeration, except when SP has a majority of siege towers, corsairs at Dol Amroth and plenty of army dice... Your tip about removing machines may be helpful, I will certainly give it a try.

So you were right: all that mustering and moving he does at the beginning, takes a couple of turns. This is why his armies get so large eventually. My problem is, that he never actually attacks me while he does that, which means that in the meantimeI cannot reinforce my armies. So by the time he is ready to attack, I have not been able to stick in a single unit, if I'm lucky.

But then, from what you write, I gather all this is just what life for the FP is like...

Thanks again, can't wait to have another go at the game!

[hipsu]

Your son's tactic shouldn't really work. The FSP will dunk the ring if the SP starts to delay too much.

Lord Aragorn posted some good tips but it is also very likely that you are forgetting some rule or playing some rule incorrectly. Please don't get me wrong because I believe for most "newbies" it's near impossible to NOT make some rules mistakes. I myself found out after ~20 games that if the FP has siege superiority then the SP cannot reduce an elite to continue the attack. I can't fathom how I missed that rule but it's one of those rules that can really make the difference.

So, if you got time, go over the rules one more time or even try this compilation for a different angle veldrin.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Rules&action=display&thread=1234

[genghissean]

Conquering Gondor & Rohan is very difficult. I have found only one opponent that can beat me as FP regularly. 3-2 out of the last 5. And it seldom includes either Rohan or Gondor (maybe parts but not all).
Turn 1. Let's say I get 2 c, 1 muster, and a willie my 1st role, I quickly separate all the fellowship except Gandalf and Gimli and send them to Moria. Then, 2nd character send Aaragorn and Boromir towards MT. The hobbits and Lego to fangorn. Us elven ring to change Muster die to C and send lego and merry to Edoras (activating Rohan) and Aaragorn and Bor to MT (activating MT). Then make Aaragorn King with the willie and you have yourself 5 dice turn 2. Another option is take Gandalf too.

Turn 2. Use any dice to muster Gondor to war (Borimir's special ability), and muster die to get a couple of Elites in MT and you have yourself a powerful army. If you took Gandalf, use a willie and make him white, giving you six dice for turn 3. Muster in the ENTS!!! with pippin.

Turn 3. Muster and move immediately into Oz. Leave a guy behind, or move everyone and muster behind. Save brave stand, and sudden strike Com Cards (he is rolling only two with no re-rolls if you have Gthewhite, the white negates ALL nazgul leadership, sweet!) I have more than once whiped out an army of 10, including the witchking, defending oz.

Turn 4. Get Galadriel and start combining moving the Fellowship and Mustering. If Lego is in Lorien, use any dice to muster to war (Lego, special ability).

Basically Aaragorn, Borimir and Gandalf make Gondor impossible to take over, and if lucky, use Day and a night after a huge win in Oz to take over Minas morgul(be careful, and watch the dice to make sure you can do it). Then move in to Gorgoroth and take your pick of the easiest SH to take for a MV.

Let me know if this helps.

[genghissean]

Also, you do not have to be at war in order to muster in FP siege maschines! ;D True and helpful.

[godrob]

This strategy won't work against most opponents but it should help you in your current predicament.

As the FP, it's helpful to use your first Army die to move one regular from Osgiliath to South Ithilien and the other to North Ithilien.

This will force your opponent to attack you earlier than he would like. Try to reinforce Osgiliath as soon as possible with at least one regular. By the time Osgiliath is taken, Gondor is at war without you using any muster dice!

If you have Muster dice to spare early, use them on the Elves and then mustering in Lothlorien, at least until Rohan or Gondor is at war.

A fast-growing army from Isengard can get quickly spread out and it's difficult to prevent a combined Elven/Rohan army from retaking Edoras, Helm's Deep, or even Minas Tirith.