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Post by magicgeek on Jun 26, 2007 7:53:59 GMT 1
Magic Geek conquers with Shadow as Frodo Corrupts. Turn 17, 7 hour game.
At end of game, Shadow had no cards in hand, no cards to draw from either deck.
Long, Slow and hard fought. No flashy stuff.
At end of game, Fully 60 red miniatures moved into Gondor. Dol Amroth with the King was still defiant. Lorien and HD were Maxed out. Woodland Realm had lost its garrison trying to retake Dale, But WR was still free.
The rest were conquered.
The Fellowship had been pounded from the start. Gandalf died to a 3 on the first Hunt. The King ws crowned on turn 2, boromir, a Hobbit and legolas did their usual things.
Then the Fellowship got pounded. The Balrog followed the FSP into Dimril Dale ( and died), but the Army followed the FSP into Lorien, and forced lots of dice to be used, but no attack ever happened. The FSP healed in Lorien for 4 turns! But everything was so slow.
The Hillmen Charged Dol Amroth. Dol Amroth got reinforced, then Cirdan, then the King. So then stopped and went back near Rohan. So many dice were eaten by pressuring the FSP that by turn 8, only Pelagir was conquered! The Elven and North muster pools were looking shallow. Gandalf had a real tilt at Mt Gundabad with Carrock, but failed.
The Ents wiped the Wolves as they pushed Rohan into HD, The Hillmen stepped in and holed up HD. Eventually they took Edoras (yay!).
MT Gram took Rivendell. Rivendell formed up with Moria & Nth Dunland to wipe out the west, and a scouting Bree liberated Rivendell for a moment at the end.
In the last turn, M-T, Dale and Erebor all fell for 12 VP. On that last turn, Frodo needed to pull 2 friendly tiles to make it. He drew a red tile first, and lost.
At 6am I looked at the last card in the character deck. Frodo was revealed. The last card is an expansion card (different coloured card back). I sat, I thought, I tried to figure out what the card was and if I should draw it and play it because I needed to nail the FSP.
Trying to remember Shadows on Dol Guldur is hard. The card is terrible. Actually this is one of the odd things about the expansion, the 8 extra cards are not actually assessed at all, by anyone.
The 8 extra cards are very interesting, mostly because most of them are not very well designed. They are too narrow, and mostly too weak. Admittedly, deep trenches is quite an exception.
And we have run into quite a large problem.
The Hillmen have a really crap card that says they get to attack beforehand. (Old Hatred) When they attack a stronghold, is the number needed a 5 or a 6 to hit?
We have always assumed 6, as of last game we are playing 5. The roll is not a combat roll, it is before the combat roll, therefore it should not have the modifers. Same with sudden strike. As example, does Siege Engine Advantage effect Sudden Strike?
Lots of card effects, like Mighty blow or Anruil or daring defiance (? no leadership from companions to negate their card) say things like before the leadership reroll do something. Well, before the roll means before the bit you dont get to, or before the bit you sacrificed, do something else.
Gandalf can use mighty blow because the dice did miss, and before the leader reroll (that wont occur) he got a hit. . . ?
It all makes very little sense regardless.
Making Mighty attack worse because it can be blocked makes it even weaker. Making the Companions weaker in combat seems a bad thing. Making the Hillmen card stronger sounds OK. So, do Hillmen hit on a 5 or a 6 against a Stronghold when the Hatred is Old?
Does Heads on a stick (Deep Trenches combat card) stop Mighty blow? Who knows?
Seems Very strange for me not to know this by now.
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Post by mrweasely on Jun 26, 2007 15:08:42 GMT 1
Not in the FAQ, I see. Should be.
I'm sure I've read that Sudden Strike, Charge, and Ol' Hatred are affected by terrain, and so hit only on a '6'.
I'm pretty sure I've read that Gandalf can't both forfeit his leadership and use Mighty Blow in the same round, on the principle that you can't double-forfeit.
Words of power causes Mighty Blow to fizzle if there's only one companion. IIRC if there are more than one, the shadow picks their target first, then the FP chooses the other one to do the Blow.
...
Whenever the game designers were presented with an opportunity to increase the fun of the game, e.g. by making Mighty Blow less sucky, they seem to instinctively seek out the lamer option. I can't figure out if they're anti-fun, or what.
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Post by mrweasely on Jun 26, 2007 15:22:24 GMT 1
The default is to be effected by terrain. The exception to the default is We Come to Kill, which explicitly specifies 5 or 6, regardless of terrain.
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Post by rats on Jun 28, 2007 0:24:00 GMT 1
The default is to be effected by terrain. OK - Terrain modifies the hit# of extra attacks. Cities/Strongholds/Fortifications are terrain. Does anything else modify the hit# of extra attacks? - Combat cards that modify all attacks/re-rolls like Deadly Strife?
- The combat card Advantageous Position? Is it further complicated by only affecting combat rolls and not leader re-rolls?
- Siege engine superiority/inferiority?
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Post by Krieghund on Jun 29, 2007 0:16:05 GMT 1
The default is to be effected by terrain. OK - Terrain modifies the hit# of extra attacks. Cities/Strongholds/Fortifications are terrain. Does anything else modify the hit# of extra attacks? - Combat cards that modify all attacks/re-rolls like Deadly Strife?
- The combat card Advantageous Position? Is it further complicated by only affecting combat rolls and not leader re-rolls?
- Siege engine superiority/inferiority?
Combat cards affect the Combat roll, the Leader re-roll, or both. None of them affect extra rolls provided by other Combat cards. Siege Engine Superiority modifiers only affect the Combat roll.
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Post by magicgeek on Jul 1, 2007 2:38:57 GMT 1
magic geek as Shadow romps all over a Turn 7 concession. Everything just went wrong for him. The Fsp got so stuffed that I started using all the cards I normally use in combat. The army going north out of Mordor swerved and charged Lorien. Lorien had strength and needed to be surpressed. I had intended the army from Dul Guldur to do that, but instead they went straight through Moria and managed to jump on the Fsp one step out of Rivendell on turn 3. The Nazgul reroll is really nice, especially since Sauron is not at war yet. The Hillmen charged and took Greyhavens. A second Long Planned Gorgoroth triple moved to the Dwarven border and beseiged Erebor. He got No Wills & No Characters, then only characters as the Fsp got blown to smithereens. Finished with 8 Corruption just Sth of Lorien. The King dashed at Mordor and everybody including the Whitch King died. Except the other 15 red pieces and the red one in Minas T, then he conceeded, which was entirely reasonable. After the game he had a sink full of bad words about the chocolate.
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Post by magicgeek on Jul 3, 2007 3:56:15 GMT 1
I think I have come up with something very slighlty different enough, and I am doing it regularly enough, that I think it counts as a distinct idea. I am calling it "The Pounce". The plan is to slow the game down to a crawl and grind out the Free. To do this you must get rerolls on the FSP by putting an army with a Nazgul ontop of it. Always. Conquering the board will happen eventually, there is no hurry. The biggest initial shadow concentration near the FSP is Dol Guldur. Moving straight past Lorien, through Moria and on to Rivendell is an entirely reasonable first 2 turns. The other option is the aesthetically more pleasing, Hillmen. Saruman is the obvious first option for almost every game. Hillmen are only 1 die and 4 hillmen and 2 lumpies seems enough to push rivendell inside, with nazgul. But pushing Rivendell inside with hill/lumpies is maybe aiming a little high. Chasing the FSP with a nazgul and a lone Hillmen is the Apex When you have 2 rerolls, placing 2 eyes is fine. It REALLY slows the FSP to a crawl. And the Troll from Barad Dur goes to Lorien, not DEW. The Middle of the board must be flooded with red. Actually taking strongholds is not something you should waste any time with. Just force the Free to spend dice in Lorien, or take it. The reason I believe this is a standard idea not just a collection of ideas is the consistency it seems to show. The Pounce is a genric response to the standard Free start. The Free largely do the same thing, over and over. Get the King, Hobbit to Fangorn, Legolas to Lorien, Boromir to M-T. Gandalf, Galadriel and King try to form Voltron and squeek the ring down the well just in time. The thing is I think the shadow does not have to play along. Balrog is nice. And not needing sauron to be at war is a real bonus because the Nazgul can still chase. Placing Zero eyes on the first turn is the right call. You are still likely to roll one anyway, and they are unlikely to move the FSP anyway. If the entire hunt pool is drained, smeagol actually becomes a curse.
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Post by mrweasely on Jul 3, 2007 4:53:24 GMT 1
Nice post. How and when do you segue (segway?) if the fellowship doesn't do what you expect? Like a fellowship that sticks together and runs gaily laughing into the hunt dice firehose, card cycling all the way.
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Post by magicgeek on Jul 3, 2007 5:27:41 GMT 1
Actually I think The Pounce may be stonger against that.
The King does nothing, Strider stands behind Gandalf wondering when he will be special. Galadriel never arrives, or very late, because the elves and sauron go to war very, very late.
Trying to move two spaces a turn against 3 eyes with 2 rerolls is REALLY TOUGH.
Eventually the entire red force pool will crush and remove the entire blue force pool. Pounce is about making certain that idea has enough time to occur.
If a red stronghold falls, you must get it back. Pounce really abuses the siege engines abuse (no free siege engines in Moria, but shadow can build them outside Moria). All red stronghold must remain red because FPMV will always be an option for them. And Lorien must be suppressed. Killing Lorien is an optional extra.
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Post by magicgeek on Jul 8, 2007 7:51:10 GMT 1
magic geek as Shadow gets kicked all over thew board. The failure stopped about turn 13. Everything went wrong for me, everywhere across the board. I hunted and failed to find, over and over. The first find was stopped by the Staff. The Balrog pulled a 3, killing Gandalf, and letting Galadriel suck 3 points of heroic death. Gandalf rezzes and Ents wipe out the remains of a 17 HP army that Failed to take Lorien. Witch King, Nazgul, Siege Engines and cards included. Moria felt naked and grew an Orc. Suddenly the third Ent killed that one orc, and the Balrog. No successful hunting for the game is bad. Orc patrol got a Smeagol, and in Mordor he got 2 blue tiles. I had rolled 4 characters a Muster a Palantir and an Eye on the first turn. Not Good. Admittedly he didn't roll wills till turn 4. I had a choice of boring Dew attack, or a go at pounce. Dol Guldur Ran straight through Moria and charged Rivendell. Him putting Legolas, Boromir and Hobbit in Rivendell certainly changed the odds, that and turn 1 Elves to War. I didn't actually attack Rivendell until turn 3, and then it went a little pear shaped. He fought a Field Battle, and everbody died, except the Fellowship. He did it to stop rerolls, and it worked. The Monsters were roused, and a Troll fought an Eleven elite in the second field battle for Rivendell. My troll died. The East formed up and DEW got muscles. Mordor trapped the King in M-T. Southrons Lost at Dol Amroth, But Conquered Pelagir, WOOOOO. I think I failed at it because I didn't go hard enough. I left a guy in Dimril Dale, and I didn't have time to pick up the Troll from the Balrog. I still really like this idea as a basic theme to the way to play though. Running the Elves out of troops can be good. Stops all kinds of sillyness too.
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Post by mrweasely on Jul 8, 2007 16:34:40 GMT 1
I still really like this idea as a basic theme to the way to play though. Running the Elves out of troops can be good. Stops all kinds of sillyness too. I agree, but note that there's more than one way to run the elves out of musters. How in the heck did you get 17 hp into Lorien? And what turn number?
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Post by magicgeek on Jul 9, 2007 2:15:15 GMT 1
Actually I think it was 18 HP
Balrog's Troll + Shadows on Misty mountains 2xTrolls + 2 go to Dimrill Dale 5 wolves triple march from the Fords through Fangorn -> parth C -> Dimrill Dale HillMen and Lumpys from Sth Dunland move from the Gap into Fords of Isen
Then the remaining 8 HP and 4 nazgul and Mr Angry all get Ented to Death.
I think it was turn 4 ?
Who was that idiot complaining that the Ents had been Nerfed?
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Post by mrweasely on Jul 9, 2007 6:40:02 GMT 1
Well in _My_ last game ents did 2 hits, total. I drew two ent cards, though one did get whacked by WWS&Toil.
Turn 4 Gandalf the White is much, much sooner than I've been getting him.
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Post by magicgeek on Jul 25, 2007 2:30:13 GMT 1
Then I got a guy to defend Moria. And the third Ents activated and killed the Balrog. Turn 4 the big army seiged Lorien. Not when Gandalf rezzed, or when Lorien was actually attacked. X X X Magic Geek Corrupts the Fellowship, turn 19. Shadow on 5VP, Free on 2VP. But I was reconquering Orthanc next turn. Seige Engines so Hurt FPMV Mass Eyes were the order of the day. Not that they did much, except slow him to a crawl. He finally declared two away from Mordor, from Rivendell, but he had copped a little pain along the way. Then he got nailed. I turn stalled him 3 times. Barad Dur took besieged the turn 3 King. The WK and Aragorn then mutual annihilated, and the blood kept flowing. The WK was forced to Deadly strife into certain mutual death by a pelagir Army, which swerved and took Minas Morgul. Mordor' s second army retook Minas Morgul, and Easterlings came from Nurn. Minas T became Gondor again, but not for long as Gondor was spent. The Entire Gondor Force pool being on the board is quite comforting once the King is dead. 5 Regulars in Dol Amroth looked at the 4 Southrons in Pelagir at the end of the game. 40 troops died coming out of the SE. Turn 2 Galadriel fought beside Legolas until the turn the FSP got to Mordor. She sortied once and even broke the seige. Dol Guldur died at Lorien first, with Moria, then the raging Dunlendings, then the Far Harad Elephants copped the third Ent, the Elephants got reinforced by the Long Planned Nurn Easterlings, and then they got the pregnant dog. (Third Ent?, oh, Saruman got Nailed and Rohan conquered Orthanc.) Defences were suddenly needed, and the ability to retake Orthanc. Mordor Was empty, but far. Mt Gundabad had 5 orcs. Moria had a Balrog and 2, plus proximity to Loriens Conquerers. Dol Guldur got a Troll, and the Horde from Sth Rhun charged past Dale across, and south to cover Dol Guldur. Each time the next wave would fight, often they would die without card play. The card were saved and spent on the Fellowship. Lorien and Minas T were the only Free strongholds ever attacked. And they were blood baths. The Elves ran out of troops, which was nice, because it meant that WR and Grey Havens felt nervous, and the buffed Rivendell stayed home. He got into Mordor eventually. He had all four blue tiles, but drew my red 3 instead. Then he drew Eye, Eye and died. Galadriel would have used his 3 Elven rings.
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Post by mrweasely on Jul 25, 2007 16:55:28 GMT 1
Why did he declare out of rivendel to gates-minus-2?
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