Foul thing from the deep

[eXistenZ]

TEXT:
Draw a hunt tile. [...] If the tile is numbered [...], follow the rules for a successful Hunt, but the Free Peoples must take a random Casualty if possible.

What happens if a "0 + revealing" tile is drawn? I assume, since it should proceed as for a successful Hunt, the Fellowship is revealed but suffers no random Casualty, as it takes no Hunt damage (actually zero damage). Is it correct?

[nigel]

Right,

You treat the tile exactly like a drawn tile for a normal hunt (except if it's a special or eye), but if there is damage you cannot take it as pure corruption unless Gollum is leading the Fellowship (you have to draw a random casualty).

You can use cards like "axe & Bow" to reduce the damage to zero too (if a '1' was picked in this case).

Nigel

[eXistenZ]

Topic related:

when I have "Axe and Bow" on the table, may I use it after the tile drawing (so to see the tile drawn and think about using it or not) or should I use it before, as blind? In a similar question I asked (about "Flocks of Crebrain") it has been answered that I must choose to discard or not that card before the Hunt roll...

[Veldrin]

You can use the "Protection cards" (Axe and Bow and Horn of Gondor) after the tile has been drawn.

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]

[icetrey]

I think that a more careful reading of the rules section on applying the effects of the hunt contradicts the interpretation above. It seems to me that any non-Eye tile drawn by Foul Thing from the Deep kills a Companion if one is available. Here's why:

When a tile is drawn with a non-negative number on it, the FP player decides whether to use the Ring or take casualties. If a zero is drawn, they of course choose to use the Ring and suffer no corruption. If they, for some reason, were to choose to take casualties, the rules provide no "check" to see if there is positive damage before losing a Companion. Instead they direct the FP player to do the following:

"If he takes casualties, he must eliminate one Companion...[it then describes the two different options for choosing who will be lost.]
If the Hunt Damage is Higher than the Level of the eliminated Companion (including an eliminated Guide), the excess damage is taken as Corruption for the Ring-bearers. If the Hunt Damage is lower than the Level of the Companion, he is eliminated nonetheless (i.e., it is not possible to "wound" Companions)."

So if an ordinary Hunt tile draw were a zero, the FP could choose to take casualties, in which case some Companion would die. From this we can deduce that any pre-Mordor tile draw other than an Eye drawn by the Foul Thing from the Deep's effect will kill a random Companion, if one is available. The FP player is forced to use the inefficient method of dealing with a zero damage tile.

As a side note, I haven't resolved the question of what would happen if a negative-damage Hunt tile is drawn in Mordor with the Foul Thing from the Deep. Unlike the zero-damage tiles, the rules make it explicit that no Hunt Damage results from the negative tiles. However, the rules for resolving the drawing of a Hunt tile makes it clear that the FP player must "confront the effects of the Hunt" using a specific procedure. One way of looking at this is that resolving a numerical result on a tile happens only by "using the Ring", so if that isn't an option the FP player can't get the helpful effect of a negative tile. The opposing view would say that the language in the description of the special Hunt tiles earlier in the rules seems to imply a sort of pre-emption of the normal procedure, i.e. one doesn't actually "use the Ring" to gain the benefits of the Phial of Galadriel. I'm inclined toward the second interpretation, but the rules provide some support for the former.

Jim

[icetrey]

I posted my rules interpretation on BGG and one of the designers of WotR replied. His clarification says that despite what the rules indicate, the Foul Thing requires a positive hunt tile result to eliminate a Companion.

Jim

[eXistenZ]

It seems to be reasonable... anyway, it really happens ony for "foul thing from the deep", since it should be unlikely that FP players chooses to not take 0 damage and kill a companion! So maybe it should just be corrected on the card something like "If the Hunt tile is a zero, nothing happens".
By the way, I've got another question about the card: if is not possible to take casualties (i.e. Gollum is the guide) what happens? take corruption?

[Veldrin]

Yes, if no Companions are left you have to take it as Corruption.

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]