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Post by Homba on Sept 8, 2008 6:32:22 GMT 1
"Activate one Nation of your choice and advance that Nation one step on the Political Track."
We wondered if this card could be used to advance an ALREADY ACTIVE Nation one step on the p.track?
It seems reasonable to allow this, however the literal wording of the card cuts against allowing it.
What's your opinion?
H
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Post by redsimon on Sept 8, 2008 14:42:07 GMT 1
You are always entitled to just execute partially what a card allows you to do (this is in the FAQ). So if you only have active nations left and want to use this card or simply want to advance an active nation, you are allowed to do so.
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Post by Krieghund on Sept 8, 2008 19:22:50 GMT 1
You are always entitled to just execute partially what a card allows you to do (this is in the FAQ). I don't believe that this is correct. The FAQ indicates that the wording of each individual card is important in determining whether or not it may be partially implemented. I Will Go Alone and There And Back Again are examples of this. This indicates to me that this card may only be used on an inactive Nation. |
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Post by redsimon on Sept 8, 2008 20:38:01 GMT 1
I do believe it is corect. Also there is no condition to play this card. And it doesn't contradict the background which is nations with advice from Elrond face the Shadow.
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Post by Krieghund on Sept 8, 2008 21:24:41 GMT 1
True, there is no explicit precondition. However, the card says "Activate one Nation of your choice and advance that Nation one step on the Political Track." You can't activate a Nation that's already active, and the "and" links the two actions together. This creates an implicit precondition.
This is similar to I Will Go Alone, which requires a Companion to separate in order to heal a Corruption point. If there are no Companions to separate, you can't heal the Corruption.
It seems to me that if The Wisdom of Elrond were meant to be played on an already-activated Nation, it would say something like this:
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Post by redsimon on Sept 9, 2008 8:44:56 GMT 1
This is similar to I Will Go Alone, which requires a Companion to separate in order to heal a Corruption point. If there are no Companions to separate, you can't heal the Corruption. Similar because you cannot really compare the two as I Will Go Alone explicitely says "to heal one Corruption point" not "and heal one Coruption point". I still disagree. If it was played on an active nation, you could say that it would be activated but with no effect as it was activated already before the card was played. Also remember if it was meant to be played in your way, it would be useless when drawn or in hand if all nations have been activated by actions of the Shadow/the Free Peoples or if the Witch-king, The Black Captain was recruited. I don't think that is what the designers intended. |
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Post by Krieghund on Sept 9, 2008 13:59:47 GMT 1
I've changed my mind on this issue. I still believe that my interpretation of the wording of the card is correct, but I forgot to apply this rule from page 11:
This rule renders any argument as to the relation of the two actions moot, as applying only one of the actions is legal.
Redsimon, you were correct on the rules in your initial post. Sorry I didn't realize this earlier, and thank you for challenging me on this. I won't be likely to forget this rule again!
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Veldrin
Lord of the Nazgûl 
Posts: 1,305
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Post by Veldrin on Sept 9, 2008 20:51:51 GMT 1
The card can be used to "only" execute the later half of it (i.e. it can be used on an allready Active Nation).
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Post by redsimon on Sept 10, 2008 8:48:08 GMT 1
I've changed my mind on this issue. I still believe that my interpretation of the wording of the card is correct, but I forgot to apply this rule from page 11: It can happen that the effects of an Event card cannot be fully applied. In this case, the card can still be played and its effects are applied to the maximum extent possible.And I forgot that this is in the rulebook rather than in the FAQ. |
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