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Post by mrweasely on Apr 25, 2007 14:28:13 GMT 1
Yes, we all know that if Voice of Saruman is ever used, the Free People have absolutely no hope. With Dale and Carrock gone, the north has zero muster points to oppose Dunlanders.
Losing lorien doesn't bother me. I lose Lorien in most Twilight games anyway. I wouldn't even bother to get Galadriel if I didn't have a chance to keep her. This would be a straight Aragorn & Gandalf the White game. Like old times.
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Post by mrweasely on Apr 25, 2007 16:41:42 GMT 1
Having said that, I'm actually quite uncertain which path yields higher % success, if that was what I was going for. Your way certainly is more fun.
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Post by magicgeek on May 11, 2007 5:09:28 GMT 1
Magic Geek’s Free get the Ring to Mt Doom, Smeagol grabs it off the redraw, and Frodo goes down. Turn 10. <sigh> Ents should have killed the WK at Lorien with 15 dice averaging 5 hits, needing 4, but getting 2. Turn 3 King stood at Dol Amroth. Fully automatic Siege Engines killed 24, but needed 26. It kept on not happening. Magic Geek’s Free, gets conquered, FSP move 1 space. I Hummed and Harrrred for 20 minutes before figuring out what to do. WoW Sword Muster Army Ent + Last Battle Waddaya Do? Ents is the obvious call. Trying to sneak a Gandalf might work. (Gandalf could move and Die and Rez, maybe, and maybe) (Gandalf could Separate after Saruman and White, maybe) (Gandalf could separate and go to Fangorn get Ents) (Gandalf could play the Wow as an event and draw a card, except the Ent card cant be played) (Sword + Ring + Ents +Wait with WoW & Gandalf in Fangorn means Shadow get Saruman on their last Die) Elves to war, (+ Ring for Galadriel?) North down 2 + Gondor? Now the thing was, and this bit really matters, He had rolled 4 musters! And no eyes! I did not want him getting Max Wolves and still being able to muster more guys next turn. I also didn’t want Mr Angry out on turn 1, yelling at Galadriel with a full set of Wolves. And no Eyes means 2 free moves, and a third for a Ring! Um.. . . I got Strider to deliver a Hobbit to the Ents. Then the game got very strange. Dol Guldor sat on Woodland realm. Moria + Hillmen conquered Rivendell. Lorien conquered Moria. Lorien Grew 2 Elites, grabbed companions and Dol Guldor. Ents pound the Beseigers of Moria! Moria still fall into Darkness. The King rode scared a peaceful, double Efalumped Umbar. Peaceful Rohan rode through Fangorn and stood next to Moria, protecting Lorien & Dol Guldor. The King ran to Dagorlad, shadow boxing the WK. Reinforcements go to Morranon. The King and Gandalf die, trying to win at Minas Morgul. Rohan considers going Orthanc. Well, after attacking Moria and running south through Dunland. Grey Havens starts going for Orthanc. (Bonus 2 hits Ents, why not?) Game ends. Shadow gets to 14 Victory points. Any form of defense had been utterly abandoned, just no point. I think this should have ended as a FPMV. But it didn’t. So many almosts, and a should have. Going Aggressive with 5 Hp and companions against a sea of red is actually quite fun. Galadriel was naked 3 times. The FSP moved once. This game came up with a weird rules question. Q> Can the Balrog be mustered “Outside” Moria? The Elves conquer Moria, the shadow besiege. Can the Balrog be Mustered to lead the Shadow? I say no. But I am not sure. I figure it is the same with Galadriel, Saruman, and the Mouth. If All the Elves are conquered, and Fangorn has an orc, Gandalf could not Rez. There is a pretty reasonable counter that runs, “Cards get to muster into besiegers so why cant the Balrog?”
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Veldrin
Lord of the Nazgûl
Posts: 1,305
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Post by Veldrin on May 11, 2007 6:53:46 GMT 1
The rule is that a Region must be free of enemy units or controlmarker for you to muster into it except that you can muster into a besieged army with an event card.
The Shadow army besieging Moria isn't besieged and there is an enemy army in the Region so you cannot muster him into it.
[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]
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Post by mrweasely on May 11, 2007 17:24:17 GMT 1
According to the FAQ, you can also muster into a beseiging army with an event card.
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Veldrin
Lord of the Nazgûl
Posts: 1,305
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Post by Veldrin on May 11, 2007 18:08:49 GMT 1
Yes, but the Balrog from the expansion isn't an Event Card.
All Characters (Saruman, Mouth, Balrog, Galadriel, GtW) that are musterable in a Stronghold can only be mustered there if the Stronghold is friendly.
[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]
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Post by magicgeek on May 16, 2007 3:51:30 GMT 1
Magic Geek Scores FREE MILITARY ! Turn 10 , Fellowship goes one, Shadow on 5
Event, Event, Army, Character F!F!F!F! & Bilbo’s Song.
Separate All Companions to Moria F!F!F! Gandalf to Bree, Strider + Hobbit to Fangorn, Gimli+Hobbit+Boromir to Rhapsody, Legolas to Lorien Get Ents Legolas moves Elves down one
Shadow gets Wizard + Hillmen + Warg in Sth Dunland & charges Gandalf in Bree
Turn 2 Gandalf gets Elite, Elite, Scouts to Nth Downs + Power Rangers. The Angry WK gets a troll, Nazgul and some Dreadful spells on Gandalf. And the King shows in M-T. Gimli+Hobbit+Boromir to Carrock Turn 3 Gandalf runs northest, away from the WK, the Hillmen go on to conquer the entire Northwest. Gandalf entered Mt Gram as the regular from Carrock & 3 Companions moved beside Mt Gundabad with the second Army move. (2x Heroic Death made this safe) WK returns to Angmar, but the troops never left. Grey Gandalf Attacks Mt Gundabad, Nazgul Arrive and Double Troll upgrade. WK tries a sortie and fails.
The Elves go to War, muster an Elite in Lorien, move north and poke Moria in one neat move. Shadows on Misty Mountains fills the Stronghold and Nazgul arrive.
Woodland Realm Reinforced, moves to Old Forest Rd, Carrock, Onto Companions, and into Mt Gundabad. Turn 6 Mt Gundabad Falls in big battle with lots of Free cardplay.
Orthanc double moves onto a warg in Sth Dunland, moves to Nth Dunland and pokes the Besiegers of Moria. Rivendell’s twin Elites just make it in beforehand. A single red poke from Nth Dunland and the Elves ran. Fighting was a way to lose, so I ran and let his 2 smaller armies link in Moria.
Turn 9 Orthanc is empty, and I have the Dice, so the Elven forces ran south, into Fangorn, to the Fords, and wonder how that red Army appeared in Orthanc. Moria had splintered and Triple Moved through the Gap of Rohan onto a new Wolf Rider at Orthanc. Once again the triple had thwarted me!
The Elves jump back into Fangorn. Gandalf+2,walk south with a Regular from Mt Gundabad. Galadriel dies. Turn 10 Eleven Ring with last dice to conquer Moria, with The King, White Gandalf, Boromir, Legolas a Hobbit and 13 Hp of Elves. 4 Cards Used, Andruil, Valour, Mighty Blow, and opened with 1 dice for you because I have 5 companions.
Got him.
3 Event cards for the game. F!F!F! Eagles Woodland Realm Reinforce (and draw a card)
I have spent a lot of time thinking about this particlur 4% of games. First turn F!F!F! is great. I think it is actually good enough to be considered it’s own variant. The North have the least amount of VP, so they can just abandon their home like no other nation.
There is actually HUGE amount different to this type of game. Lots of stuff that really isn’t obvious. For instance Gandalf should not lead the Fellowship. There just aren’t enough good character event cards to play. All those types of cards must be used in combat by the companions. That means the companions must be on the map. And someone has to move 3 from Moria to get to Bree. Having a Grey Gandalf leading an aggressive army is fun too.
The North, is like, IN, the North. The North are close to Mt Gundabad and Moria. The North can conquer Mt Gundabad and Moria to win. Carrock is Closer to Mt Gundabad. Bree is Closer to Moria, & Nth Dunland. Resistance will first come as an uprising from Dunland.
The closet troops to Mt Gundabad and Moria that are not north are Elves, Elves and Elves. So, getting the Elves to war is a good thing, and Legolas is good at it. The Biggest Elf stack is in Lorien, so move Legolas to Lorien. Use event die to send the Elves to War. Saruman Musters Lots of Troops next to Moria. Ents Stops The Voice. Must get Ents before Voice So, Move hobbit to Fangorn
The King needs to get to Gondor, and Fangorn is 3 from Moria, so Strider must carry the Hobbit.
That leaves Gimli, Boromir and a Hobbit. And Carrock whistling loudly for all the help it can get. Instantly Carrock has 3 Dice with 3 Leadership Add 2 elites and Mt Gundabad is takeable, if you are fast. If not, a second fast reinforce works.
Be careful with muster and WoW last in second and third turns.
Dol Guldur can be a good target too, especially from Lorien. Beware that Galadriel cannot go through a day and a night, she aint that type of Lady. Orthanc can work, especially with multiple Ents and the Elves charging through Fangorn.
Do not attack if you don’t think you can win, run away somewhere else. Scouting away is even better because you can get closer to somewhere else. Double moving companions with Character actions is fine if winning the fight will win the game. Anruil makes life easy.
In the North the Free outnumber the Shadow at start.
MT Gundabad = 2 Regulars Moria = 2 Regulars
Nth = 1 Sth = 1 Orthanc = Far Away.
Rivendell = 4 Lorien = 5 Bree = 1 Nth Downs = 2 Carrock = 1 Woodland Realm = Far away
By my count that is 13 to 6 in the Free Favour. Admittedly, that is ignoring the Hillmen, but FREE FAVOUR !
So, putting all that together, This is what I reckon Should be done with
Character, Event, Army, Event, ;D F!F!F!F! ;D & Bilbo’s Song
Separate All Companions to Moria F!F!F! Gandalf to Bree, Strider + Hobbit to Fangorn, Gimli+Hobbit+Boromir to Rhapsody, Legolas to Lorien Get Ents Legolas moves Elves down one
This way you can threaten Mt G with Carrock. And Moria with Bree. And Moria with Lorien. And Dol Guldur with Lorien. And Maybe Orthanc with Lorien, through Fangorn.
Nth Downs moves to Bree, then Hollin, then Nth Dunland, then Moria. Well, I reckon that would be the preferred plan. Taking Sth Dunland might be worth it, not sure. Bear in mind the Shadow will have a whole lot to say about what exactly is going on. This is a very interactive strategy, and shadow has powerful cards that need to be avoided.
I think in this strategy the Free have a lifespan of about 11-12 turns. Then I think everybody will be dead.
The Fellowship is a complete distraction in these games. Try to get the Shadow to invest against the Fellowship if you can. Try to pretend that this is like a normal game where them trying to corrupt you is going to matter. Every Eye is wasted. Every Hunt event they play is a combat card they don’t get to play. AND, it is a card they didn’t get to draw with dice.
I know that it may seem useful to leave companions in the Fellowship. It Aint. Often you need that little extra bit of power that a companion can do. And I think most people would actually see an empty Fellowship as a big advantage and fully go the hack into the Fellowship as the Free Conquer.
Don’t not use Rings, except for the Palantir of Orthanc. Try to make sure they attack Minas T, if you can. Look at their Dice.
This game is so different to a normal game that I doubt most peoples playing of Shadow would change enough to stop it, not first time anyway. Seriously, next time this 4% situation turns up, would you, dear reader, mind playing like this and telling me what happened?
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Post by magicgeek on May 22, 2007 5:48:51 GMT 1
Turn 9 Magic Geek loses as his Shiney people die at Orthanc turn 9. The Fellowship moved 1 space. Shadow on 9, Free on 2. Had some chances at the other 2. WoW’s sucked pus.
Turn 7 Magic Geek wins Free Military. Rivendell took Orthanc after triple ent. Companions and Lorien took Dol Guldur. Things were looking rather grim, everywhere. Fellowship actually moved a bit in this. Got south of Lorien, not sure I should have bothered. My opponent was not happy with his play.
My games seem to be about free military now. Mostly in the north.
How odd.
I think this may be because I don’t roll first turn king. And the second turn is lots of musters. And the third turn makes the King or doesn’t roll characters. So by the fourth turn, what is the point? The fellowship just aint gunna get there in time.
So, get the Ents (obviously) and Elves and Galadriel. Then wonder why Gandalf is still in the Fellowship, along with everybody else. The bit that’s sucks is separating from the Fellowship then costs a die, but the people on the board don’t get to move. Then, a second die is needed to get the characters reorganised. Knowing what you want characters to do before you want them to do it is so much good.
I have drawn F!F!F!F! early in 2 of those games, but, I think it may just be an effect that leaving Gandalf as guide has. Get Galadriel is a good idea. Legolas can Galadriel turn 2.
Often Gandalf has crap Character cards and cant use the events anyway. Muster dice should go on the Elves anyway. Turn three looks like crunch time
I have really enjoyed having lots of companions fighting together using flashing cardplay and trying to win with the Free. Andruil is harsh. Spending half a turn to group all available companions outside the siege to win is cool.
Doing the outright militarily from the start means you have time to swerve and try to win somewhere easier. You have time to play the game. Moving the Fellowship is just a bad idea, unless you are trying something silly with declaring at Moria and using a Ring card in combat.
I keep intending to try a ring sprint, but whaddaya do when he rolls 6 musters, and a muster combo? I spent a ring and got the Ents, my dice sucked.
I have liked having time to attack places that do not have points, but do have seed armies. Not sure just elves is really enough.
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Post by mrweasely on May 22, 2007 19:40:21 GMT 1
Interesting. How strong an opening do you think this is, really? Are you in danger of picking this as your "standard" opening, or committing based on action dice, or what?
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Post by magicgeek on May 30, 2007 12:19:24 GMT 1
I think I may be in danger of using the Elves as a kind of back up, last chance coz the Ring is lost, emergency escape hatch. On turn 2 of course.
There are some very odd implications. If the elves go to war, Mr Angry turns up, this is great because the Balrog wont. The Balrog is just Hell for the Elves. Suddenly Moria is the hardest shadow stronghold to take, overall. Moria without the Balrog is the easiest stronghold for the Elves since Rivendell and Lorien can double team.
Defence in an Elven Charge game is utterly irrelevent. Since the Ring will not make it, abandoning the ring utterly is a great call. All companions to Moria is a very commited first turn, let me tell you! But may be good only if your opponent has never seen this before. Shadow players just wont take the Elves seriously. I dont really know if this will work regularly. I think Elven Charge is great fun. How exactly should I quote win percentages when it completely depends on what your opponent has played against before?
First turn King is still the plan. First turn Ents is still the most likely. First turn Ents requires 3 dice, the fourth (usually a palantir) is best used as mustering the Elves through Legolas in Lorien
Dice on the second turn that only have palantirs and musters means, sod it, Elves to war, get Glad.
Drawing cards is crap. There are so few strategy cards that you want to play that drawing them is pointless. for instance, Lorien reinforcement is add an Elite and replace the card. one die for one elite. Just like using a muster dice except you dont need the special card. Elves to war on turn 2 means it is possible to empty the Elven muster pool on turn 3.
The plan is to win with the Elves about turn 6-7, coz lets face it, then they might just be all dead.
This game REALLY does in the head of the shadow. Did I mention this is really fun too? Gandalf guiding the fellowship is utterly pointless in this game. All of the companions need to be leading and fighting. Shadow have a psychological problem with fighting Gandalf the Grey too. Greybeard taking 3 in a heros death is mighty fine too, as Rivendell takes Mt Gundabad. This is the sort of approach you need to take. Shadow rolling 1 die is great. Shadow strongholds die when Strider uses Andruil.
I just read 7 colours of bullexcreta on BGG about the Free being utterly powerless, and solely defensive. Maybe they are and I am merely a little confused.
Magic Geek's Free lose to Shadow Military Turn 9 . We started after Midnight, and a Magic tournament. (3wins, 1 loss using an infinite damage combo, thanks for asking) I was more than a little tired and catching a plane the next morning, so I took 4 fellowship movements as my first turn instead of a King. Stupid really but I wanted to try a sprint. I moved an extra space on entering Mordor, and was found and revealed (yay!), and hid. Nazgul search in his hand didn't work. DEW fell, imploded is a better word, and then the dice rebelled. Triple Ents evaporated an entire army, and Rohan refused to die but the Fellowship just would not move.
Ring 1 die short of trying for the dunk. I REALLY should have had the chance of the dunk. Saw 6 eyes, worked out I could lose to an eye, or smeagol finding an eye, so I did nothing and forgot to hide the Fellowship from the previous turn. D'oh.
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Post by magicgeek on Jun 5, 2007 0:36:48 GMT 1
Turn 9 Magic Geek Dunks the Ring. Shadow on 8. No Friends, 9 Corruption. No WoW till turn 5. Simple Game, first turn Ents and move a lot. Extra move to dodge the turn stall probably won it.
Turn 8 Magic Geek Dunks the Ring. Shadow on 10. Last tile draw was 50% Frodo death. No Friends 10 Corruption. No Wow till turn 4.
All attacks started in both games were won by the Shadow. Only once in Lorien (with Boromir, Legolas, Galadriel, +1 Elite and a Siege Engine) survived, and that wasn't actually attacked.
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Post by mrweasely on Jun 8, 2007 17:33:10 GMT 1
Arriving back from summer vacation, I noticed I'd overlooked your post on "I've thought alot about how to play the FFF game". Its a nice post.
I hereby promise to be a cRaZy attacking Free People next time I get the cards.
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Post by magicgeek on Jun 11, 2007 3:44:17 GMT 1
Turn 5 Magic Geek's Shadow Conquer. Actually he conceeded, but he was stuffed. Dew gone, Fellowship nowhere. He put all his eggs in Carrock and then could not take Mt Gundabad. Crushing Shadow Victory. Turn 10 Magic Geek's Free get conquered. Frodo needed another turn for a chance. Lorien held admirably. Actually the weird bit about this was keeping all 8 Elven VP, and the shire, but losing everything else. The King died in Nth Ithillian, trying for another pointless Last Battle. So many times I have actually got that into play lately, and it just does absolutlely NUTHIN. Everybody died at Helms deep when a hobbit sortied and killed the Witch King. the lone troop in Rohan, a hillman, walked into HD from the fords. Then the Ents failed to kill any of the 3 hillmen at Helms deep. The new rohan Elite in Westenmet was particularly unimpressed. Characters and WoW hid for the last 3 turns. . . And also. The hobbit attacked and used Mighty Attack. The witch king used words of power on the Hobbit. We played the Mighty Attack still happens, which I think it does. Does it? This is one of those stupid plays where you cant use the leadership you are forfeiting, good thing that. Mighty attack says you hit on a missed die, and then dont get yer leadership. Well, he missed, then the card kicked in, then the leadership roll doesn't happen that would not have anyway.
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SevenSpirits
Nazgûl
PlayTester
Sauron meant no harm. He only wanted to draw the extra cards...
Posts: 283
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Post by SevenSpirits on Jun 11, 2007 9:32:54 GMT 1
I believe that since Mighty Attack requires you to forfeit the leadership, you can't execute the rest of the card if said leadership is taken away by another effect. I am not sure of the exact reasoning, but I am pretty sure that I'm right.
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Post by Krieghund on Jun 11, 2007 18:54:58 GMT 1
I believe that since Mighty Attack requires you to forfeit the leadership, you can't execute the rest of the card if said leadership is taken away by another effect. I am not sure of the exact reasoning, but I am pretty sure that I'm right. You're right.
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