Devilry of Saruman

[cheup]

The condition of this combat card goes like this:
If an Isengard unit is in the battle and the defending army is within a stronghold.

Does this also apply, if the Sauron forces are the besieged army?

Again, if one likes it close-to-the-book it shouldn't, on the other hand Sarumans Uruks could throw the explosives from the walls on their enemies.

[Veldrin]

It applies as long as there is atleast one Isengard unit in the besieging army.

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]

[cheup]

Veldrin said:

It applies as long as there is atleast one Isengard unit in the besieging army.

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]

OK. Although, the text on the card does not explicitly state this.

[Veldrin]

Which language version of the game do you have?

It could be a translation problem.

In my game (English verison) the Combat effect is called "Devilry of Orthanc".

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]

[cheup]

I have the english version, too, and the condition is very much like this:

"If an Isengard unit is in the battle and the defending army is within a besieged stronghold."

It is not explicitly stated that the Isengard unit must not be part of the defending army.

[Veldrin]

Correct, they could be part of the attacking army as well. This is an anti Stronghold combat effect, very usefull for the Shadow when attacking an FP Stronghold.

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]

[cheup]

Veldrin said:

Correct, they could be part of the attacking army as well. This is an anti Stronghold combat effect, very usefull for the Shadow when attacking an FP Stronghold.

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]

Yes, but the point is they could be part of the defending army as well, at least the card does not forbid it.

And that would mean you could use it to attack the besieging FP army from inside of the besieged stronghold.

[Veldrin]

Yes, but if you attack out of the Stronghold (sortie) you would no longer be protected and the FP forces would hit you on 5+ before any Combat cards.

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]

[cheup]

I just recognized that my below quoted words were not very well chosen.

And that would mean you could use it to attack the besieging FP army from inside of the besieged stronghold.

I better make things clear by an example.

A Rohan army is besieging Orthanc and the FP player uses an army die to launch an attack on Orthanc.
Now the Shadow player plays the combat card "Devilry of Orthanc".

The question is, if this is a legal move?

Btw., if in this example the Shadow player does a sortie he may not use this combat card, since the defending player must be in the stronghold.

[Veldrin]

Yes, your example is perfect and to the letter of the Rules.

That use of "Devilry of Orthanc" is perfectly legal as long as there are Isengard units in Orthanc (which there is).

After several attempts and as many misunderstandings from my part we have solved the issue!

[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]

[cheup]

Good
Finally we made it.

And I like the solution, thinking of a bunch of Uruks throwing these gigantic grenades on the heads of the little humans.