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Post by Glabro on Apr 19, 2005 0:36:12 GMT 1
Jackstere, thanks for the advice. I´ll look into it. And thanks for the vote of confidence.
It seems you persist in suspecting that we play the rules wrong. You´ll have to take my word that I am what one might call a "rules-lawyer" when it comes to strategy games, and War of the Ring is a light strategy game at that.
In our very first test game, we were tired, and only my friend had read the rules in his fatigued condition, and taught them to me. That unfinished game is not counted amongst one of the games I´ve described on this page. Suffice to say I spent a couple of hours studying the rules the day after, and noted down 20 rules we either ignored or played wrong and all our games after that have most assuredly been played with the correct rules. And no, the game has not been translated into Finnish in our market. Most every game, computer or otherwise, is released in English here - the Finns (as well as the other nationalities in the Nordic Countries) are at an altogether different level in their English language skills compared to central European folk.
So, I´d appreciate it if this would help you believe that playing the rules wrong is not the case here.
As an aside, a thought struck my mind that playing via the net would be possible with voice-over-IP. This would enable the two players to communicate with each other while playing the game, without leaving the game board to type up stuff. You´d of course have to completely rely on your opponent´s honesty....
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Post by jackstere on Apr 19, 2005 18:00:50 GMT 1
It seems you persist in suspecting that we play the rules wrong. You´ll have to take my word that I am what one might call a "rules-lawyer" when it comes to strategy games, and War of the Ring is a light strategy game at that. So, I´d appreciate it if this would help you believe that playing the rules wrong is not the case here. As an aside, a thought struck my mind that playing via the net would be possible with voice-over-IP. This would enable the two players to communicate with each other while playing the game, without leaving the game board to type up stuff. You´d of course have to completely rely on your opponent´s honesty.... No Glabro I don't think you're playing incorrectly at all. But as jyrki asked I am curious as to how the FP managed to hold the VP he gained when the SP will normally have the last move or even several moves? When you play the SP and your friend is not moving the Fellowship how many dice are you putting in the hunt box? One seems sufficient game long--if he then moves the Fellowship his exciting Northern adventures should be stunted. I myself am going to try WilloftheWest's strategic plan in a solataire game probably with a first turn activation of Saruman. Wisdom on these boards seems to be that you may as well activate the Witch King too but I can see the argument of not wanting to activate the FP nations right away--perhaps I'll delay the Lord of the Nazgul for a turn or two anyway. Now all I've got to do is make the time to play... The idea of a voice connect online is interesting and I'm certainly willing to try it, that is if I knew anything about how to set it up. I'll check on this...perhaps at some point we could even play a game
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Post by chulainn on Apr 19, 2005 20:27:31 GMT 1
But as jyrki asked I am curious as to how the FP managed to hold the VP he gained when the SP will normally have the last move or even several moves? The last thing should not happen normally. If there is not a real good reason (and i mean a REAL GOOD reason), you never should give the shadow the opportunity to play 2 or more dice at the end of a turn. Always pass when you can. Chulainn
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Post by Glabro on Apr 20, 2005 12:45:07 GMT 1
Jackstere, I apologize, my tirade about assuming I misplay the rules was to Jyrki....I even thanked you for the vote of confidence....but failed to mention to whom the rest of the post was aimed at (besides the voice-over-ip thing).
About the dice, yes, the FP player always passes unless he needs to do something urgently. And many times when I was in a pinch, I´d roll two or three dice that enable movement from the eight. And, the problem is that when there´s a huge FP army with the majority as elites (and companions etc, especially Gandalf the White who makes a mockery of your fighting) in a good position in the North, equidistant from Moria, Dol Guldur and Mt. Gundabad, you simply can´t afford to garrison all of those appropriately, if your forces are tied up in the South as well.
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Post by jackstere on Apr 20, 2005 16:17:53 GMT 1
Jackstere, I apologize, my tirade about assuming I misplay the rules was to Jyrki....I even thanked you for the vote of confidence....but failed to mention to whom the rest of the post was aimed at (besides the voice-over-ip thing). About the dice, yes, the FP player always passes unless he needs to do something urgently. And many times when I was in a pinch, I´d roll two or three dice that enable movement from the eight. And, the problem is that when there´s a huge FP army with the majority as elites (and companions etc, especially Gandalf the White who makes a mockery of your fighting) in a good position in the North, equidistant from Moria, Dol Guldur and Mt. Gundabad, you simply can´t afford to garrison all of those appropriately, if your forces are tied up in the South as well. Didn't think you meant me with regard to the rules so no problem there. Is your friend able to muster this northern army of elites every game? Is it contingent on having the appropriate event cards early (the ones that allow for rapid war mobilization with a companion)? And by what turn approximately does he have this stack or stacks ready? I'm hoping that by grabbing the Shire and Dale that this will be prevented especially if you take no action against Gondor or Rohan early at all.
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Post by Glabro on Apr 20, 2005 22:44:10 GMT 1
Well, sometimes the combined army is elves + the North, and sometimes it is Gondor + Rohan (with the Path of the Woses)
He has managed to create at least one stack with 6-7 elites in each game. I´m actually eager to play against him again and see if I can prevent this from happening by being much more aggressive.
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Post by Jyrki on Apr 20, 2005 23:05:03 GMT 1
Jackstere, I apologize, my tirade about assuming I misplay the rules was to Jyrki.... ...And your tirade was not appropriate. I didn't "persist in suspecting" you, I just asked ONE question in this thread. And you didn't answer: "As the FP, how do you keep your 4 VPs until the end of the turn?" It seems that everybody here thinks it's a good question. Your answer can really help us to achieve a lot of military victories with the VP.
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Post by jackstere on Apr 21, 2005 16:12:19 GMT 1
He has managed to create at least one stack with 6-7 elites in each game. I´m actually eager to play against him again and see if I can prevent this from happening by being much more aggressive. In about how many turns? A Southern Elite FP army seems a bit easier to counter. I presume that you might be marching them north to simultaneously threaten those Shadow strongholds. If so about which turn would you say you're feeling pressure from them against multiple targets?
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Post by Glabro on Apr 21, 2005 16:30:31 GMT 1
Jyrki, keeping the Shadow strongholds until the end of the turn - I can´t give you a definite answer for that. All I can say is that there are either too few dice available for movement, or alternatively not enough troops.
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Post by Glabro on Apr 22, 2005 1:19:40 GMT 1
Started a new game today. Began with me having 2 in the hunt box, and rolling no eyes - but the FP rolled 4 WOTF.
Well, I didn´t care that this would mean an immediate GtW, and brought out Saruman. He responded in typical fashion, splitting off everyone except Gimli and Merri from the Fellowship, and converting to GtW. Well, this had the positive effect of making the Fellowship´s trek extremely hard.
The companions travelled to Fangorn, and threatened Saruman with Ev(ent) cards, and out of fear of those I left two of my five wargs in Orthanc, advancing with three (the Fords of Isen garrison obviously scouted away from my five wargs). I besieged Helm´s Deep, and started mustering more troops to counter the Rohan elites spawning in Edoras. The Shadow Lenghtens moved four regulars into position to defend Orthanc while the Orthanc garrison moved to Helm´s Deep. The Rohan army (3 elites and one regular) had moved forwards from Edoras, and I attacked them with my super-stack, causing no casualties. He "retreated" to Fords of Isen, ready to attack Orthanc, which he did, and obviously my garrison went in the stronghold. I left one regular to annoy the Helm´s Deep garrison and moved with the rest of the army to the Fords, while moving 4 more Dunlanders to the Gap of Rohan to block the escape of the Rohan army, which now included Boromir, Gandalf and Pippin. My army attacked as he was hesitant to attack Orthanc in the hopes of killing Saruman. Well, he caused five casualties in the first round to my three, and in the second round he caused three to my one, so that was that attack. The Dunlanders sacrificed themselves, all four of them dying, only killing one in addition to a heroically sacrificing Pippin. Then, Gandalf and Boromir fled to Edoras. My two wargs tried to kill off the two remaining Rohirrim, but failed. They retreated to the now vacant Gap. Then Saruman´s army attacked them, but again I caused no casualties, and they retreated further. The next turn they defeated my garrison in South Dunland.....
Meanwhile, Strider and Gandalf had travelled to Minas Tirith. Strider failed to convert however. The Witch King came out after the Dwarves went to war with the Book of Mazarbul and Gondor was activated by the companions.
Now, at the moment, Sauron´s armies are in North and South Ithilien, and Gondor´s army with the companions holds Osgiliath and is one step from war. The Gondor army consists of five regulars, one elite, one leader, plus Strider and Gandalf, while my force with the Witch King has 8 regulars and one elite in addition to a Nazgul, while the North Ithilien force has the original Morannon garrison of five regulars and one Nazgul. Looks like I´m forced to duke it out with the army in Osgiliath....
Again, the Free Peoples put me in a precarious position right from the beginning. That "retreating forward" is bugging me somewhat, as well as my obvious miserable luck with the dice as well as the cards.
Oh. Hunt die allocations. Turn one : 2, turn two: 1, turn three: none, turn 4 : none (I really needed to clear out Orthanc....the Fellowship has only moved once, when I rolled no eyes with my eight dice)
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Post by chulainn on Apr 22, 2005 6:18:24 GMT 1
The companions travelled to Fangorn, and threatened Saruman with Ev(ent) cards, and out of fear of those I left two of my five wargs in Orthanc, advancing with three (the Fords of Isen garrison obviously scouted away from my five wargs). I besieged Helm´s Deep, and started mustering more troops to counter the Rohan elites spawning in Edoras. So dont bite me now. But if you think again you have troubles with a FP military strategy some comments: First of all, i highly recommend to move as shadow with 10-unit-armies only, except of very special situations. If you move your army first and later muster just to move a second army to merge with the first one, its just a waste of dice. Having a 10-unit-army besieging helms klamm makes any counter plans of the FP in Rohan very hard, as you cannot really muster as much in Edoras to throw this army out again, especially if there are some wargs there. Besides that i personally am convinced, that Rohan should not be the prime target of the shadow. You need to muster there, and that needs time, while the Southerlings and Orks can march on Gondor from the start without musters. He "retreated" to Fords of Isen, ready to attack Orthanc, which he did, and obviously my garrison went in the stronghold. I left one regular to annoy the Helm´s Deep garrison and moved with the rest of the army to the Fords, while moving 4 more Dunlanders to the Gap of Rohan to block the escape of the Rohan army, which now included Boromir, Gandalf and Pippin. My army attacked as he was hesitant to attack Orthanc in the hopes of killing Saruman. Well, he caused five casualties in the first round to my three, and in the second round he caused three to my one, so that was that attack. The Dunlanders sacrificed themselves, all four of them dying, only killing one in addition to a heroically sacrificing Pippin. Then, Gandalf and Boromir fled to Edoras. My two wargs tried to kill off the two remaining Rohirrim, but failed. They retreated to the now vacant Gap. Then Saruman´s army attacked them, but again I caused no casualties, and they retreated further. The next turn they defeated my garrison in South Dunland..... Well, i dont wonder why you have troubles with the FP I guess this report should make it clear that its better to prepare first and strike hard instead of wasting dice to hunt minor FP armies down. Besides that another advice ... if you face little armies of the FP that just wander around to keep your busy, dont hesitate to throw battlecards at them. Its very unlikely the shadow has not a single battle card that makes sure he can finish a 1-3 army outside of a stronghold and not giving them the chance of retreat. Meanwhile, Strider and Gandalf had travelled to Minas Tirith. Strider failed to convert however. The Witch King came out after the Dwarves went to war with the Book of Mazarbul and Gondor was activated by the companions. As said before, the WK is coming too late. The additional dice is precious, and the fact that the FP nations getting activated is nuts against the benefits of a extra dice for the whole game. Now, at the moment, Sauron´s armies are in North and South Ithilien, and Gondor´s army with the companions holds Osgiliath and is one step from war. The Gondor army consists of five regulars, one elite, one leader, plus Strider and Gandalf, while my force with the Witch King has 8 regulars and one elite in addition to a Nazgul, while the North Ithilien force has the original Morannon garrison of five regulars and one Nazgul. Looks like I´m forced to duke it out with the army in Osgiliath.... The attack on Gondor should come first. In that case you will seldom face GtW there. And when unleash your armies at Gondor, strike them hard. 9 units are not enough to take a 5-unit-army in MT with elites and GtW out. Again, the Free Peoples put me in a precarious position right from the beginning. That "retreating forward" is bugging me somewhat, as well as my obvious miserable luck with the dice as well as the cards. For the shadow bad luck doesnt mean nearly half as much as for the FP. If you are willing to try some of the things i said, i promise you, next time your FP partner will post here And one last thing (also you will kill me again for using an "absolute"), but IF the FP doe not move the fellowship even slow (if i understood you correct, the fellowship had moved only once during the whole game), i dare to say: the FP cannot win. Under no circumstances, not even with support of the luckiest dice. Or to be on the safe side: not more than 1 game out of 100. If you dont believe this, my offer is still valid Chulainn Greycloak
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Post by Glabro on Apr 22, 2005 11:12:49 GMT 1
All right, thanks for the advice.
I agree on the part about gathering ten-stacks (with Elites) first, and that´s the usual course of action. This time, however, I was perhaps pressured to attack Rohan earlier because of the companions coming to activate it, and perhaps foolishly I thought I´d disable their mustering in Helm´s Deep as well as kill off the Fords of Isen garrison. I did this because I had "the Shadow Lenghtens" and was able to move both my six reinforcement units (making the HD army a 9-stack) to HD, and 4 Dunlanders to Orthanc in one move.
And no, I could not have used a single card in my battles so far, except for "onslaught" which I did use in an attempt to finish off Gandalf (of course, failed miserably).
The "minor FP army chasing down" was only one action from Saruman´s army - done to prevent the Rohirrim from causing trouble in my back lines - namely disabling my use of "the voice of Saruman". Of course, it meant giving up on the Witch King on that turn (turn 2), which wasn´t of course good.
The Witch King came out on turn three. Far too late? Well, as I said, would have been perhaps prudent to do so on turn two, but we are only talking about the difference of one die, and those rohirrim in the back lines needed stopping before they became the nuisance they did.
I think it was you who told me to attack Gondor first, with no troops really needed beyond the initial ones. Well, my plan with these two "smaller" armies is not to take out Helm´s Deep, but simply take Osgiliath, and possibly besiege the city - not take it.
Osgiliath is a critical region....if I move my Haradrim there, they will be the perfect garrison, protecting both Mordor and Umbar without being at war. Plus it enables movement anywhere. I do plan on starting a troll recruitment frenzy now, while moving my Barad-Dur garrison to support (as well as moving the Haradrim to Osgiliath eventually, once it´s been taken).
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Post by chulainn on Apr 22, 2005 11:30:55 GMT 1
The WK in round 3 is ok, was a missreading of me i guess (thought you brought him in late). Osgiliath is a critical region....if I move my Haradrim there, they will be the perfect garrison, protecting both Mordor and Umbar without being at war. Plus it enables movement anywhere. I do plan on starting a troll recruitment frenzy now, while moving my Barad-Dur garrison to support (as well as moving the Haradrim to Osgiliath eventually, once it´s been taken). but why this? Let your southern Haradrim go for Dol Amroth and the 20 Mordor units go for MT. If both MT and Dol Amroth is under Siege and a third SP army somewhere around as well, there is not much danger for umbar and mordor. Chulainn
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Post by Glabro on Apr 22, 2005 13:11:39 GMT 1
Here we go again: Umbar has been taken by Strider and Gandalf (though now with only 3 regulars holding it, and under siege by my forces), Mt. Gundabad is besieged by elves and dwarves, and the Rohirrim with Boromir (though only a small army of 3 regulars) are attacking Morannon (I mustered 4 regulars there , though there´s a sizable army in Minas Morgul available to drive the Rohirrim off if they succeed).
He´s done it again, I am under pressure in many points at once, and the ring has only moved once. Somehow you telling me that he has 0% chance of victory is not very reassuring, though admittedly I still see myself as the winner, if only I can hold off for a while. Now I must just stop the Rohirrim and retake Umbar.
I wish I saw a ring victory someday....
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Post by chulainn on Apr 22, 2005 13:42:31 GMT 1
Arghs ... i am sorry but there is nothing i can add anymore Just this ... if you agree, we play a PBM game and you try to play this strategy against me. Chulainn
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