What's wrong with my Gondor shadow strategy?

[godrob]

After nine Gondor games, I still haven't won as the Shadow. I'm nearly positive I'm not making any mistakes with the rules, as I've browsed these forums, the BGG forums, and the FFG website for rules questions and read the FAQ.

All games played solo.

Gondor strategy: Muster, Muster, Muster. Every muster die flips two recruitment tokens. Every token flips 1 recruitment token. Once they're all flipped (around turn 2, possibly 3), start placing tokens in the recruitment areas (again, 2 for die, 1 for token).

During combat, never fight to the death. Try to retreat only losing one or two figures then immediately rally with a token or card. Keeping armies in the way will eat up Shadow action dice.

When Imrahil arrives (around turn 3) make sure he has four tokens to flip. Move him to the Pelennor Townlands to delay the advance.

When Faramir arrives (around turn 3 or 4), place him in Minas Tirith to protect his action die. Until then, use character dice to snipe at the Shadow armies.

Gandalf ALWAYS stays in Minas Tirith.

When Rohan arrives (around turn 5, possibly 6) make sure all 10 rohan recruitment markers are in the "To Rohan" recruitment area. All 11 riders will appear in the "Forgotten Road" area. Send Eomer towards Cair Andros to retake it. Have Theoden and the other 2 leaders charge the Pelennor fields.

When Aragorn arrives, bring him in as soon as you roll a Will. He'll mop up any remaining shadow armies.

Shadow strategy:

Overall: Nazgul only use the Deadly Voices ability. Some used for the Nazgul Lord ability, but they are quickly replaced. Get two darkness cards, most are good. Hopefully draw out an X tile in the first three turns.

Turn 1, step 2: use 2 character dice to recruit in all five recruitment areas twice. Then take Osgiliath with the Witch King and 2 leaders. Place the 2 Nazgul in the Farmlands, they won't be needed this turn. Move some armies around and flip tokens in Minas Morgul and Gorgoroth to use any worthless Muster dice.

Turn 2, step 1: get a darkness card, place a Nazgul in Minas Tirith to use later. Take Cair Andros with the Easterling army and get an Action Die for next turn. Recruit Gothmog. Take the Causeway Forts and move armies across the river.

Turn 3, step 1: get darkness card, place Nazgul in Minas Tirith or Farmlands if one was used already. Finish any goals from turn 2 that weren't met. Take the Pelennor settlements. Kill Imrahil when he arrives, or most of his army. Manage armies so forces can "parachute" in next turn.

Turn 4, step 3 (possibly step 2 if I have Grond card): place 3 nazgul in Minas Tirith. POUND ON THE GATES. Take Amon Din, but leave a small defending force in Cair Andros. Sword dice used to place or place-and-flip markers in Osgiliath and Cair Andros, depending on the number of Muster dice rolled. Take Lossarnach if an opportunity presents itself.

Turn 5,step 3: Continue pounding on the gates and finishing any objectives from turn 4 that weren't met. Get slaughtered at the gates and then run over by Theoden's riders.

Turn 6, step 3: Are those black sails on the river? Yay! Uh-oh. Eomer takes Cair Andros or Osgiliath. Theoden takes Pelennor Townlands. Aragorn takes Lossarnach. game over.

Usually, I can get a 1 turn delay with Denethor's Folly or The Stairs of Cirith Ungol. I rarely have all of the darkness tokens removed, so I don't worry about that. The game never lasts that long.

So, any suggestions would be helpful. Any corrections would be VERY helpful.

[genghissean]

Gondor seems perfect to me, but I usually play Shadow. I have only lost once as the shadow and it came down to the last tile drawn. It seems you rush into the gates a little to early. I build huge armies and combine attack up to three armies. Then rally three armies 4 plus. Get your trolls into action and take position 3 after Gothmog arrives (extra troll per turn). You can wipe out Imrahil and you have not even lost a man. Or maybe 1 unit from each army which is easily replaced next turn. Also, at beginning, if flipping lucky and position 3, exhaust the Black Uruk, then when one is flip, choose a troll (that plus 2 damage is amazing, even against gates). Just some initial thoughts.

Summary, you need more armies and combine attack more, then, at the END when its getting close, attack the gates. If no grond, then use catapults (but only against the gates as the army will easily take away damage with rallies). PS. I dont find much use for siege towers

[godrob]

Thanks! I usually use combined attacks once I cross the river, but rarely with three or more armies. Do you actually attack the 10 strength walls with combined attacks?

Yeah, Imrahil rarely gives me any trouble except that when he retreats (towards Lossarnach), it cost's me another action die to keep chasing him down.

As for rushing, I don't see much choice with the fate track advancing about two spaces per turn. I thought that having 5 full strength armies would be enough, especially since they're getting refilled nearly every turn due to position three and Gothmogs recruiting special ability. I normally have 6 or 7 full strength armies by the time rohan arrives.

Good advice on the catapults that I'll have to try next game. Three musters will give me the full five dice to attack the gate with no re-rolls, costing me a combined attack elsewhere but ensuring no losses. Those three musters will also have deprived me of two small armies in Osgiliath and Cair Andros (from Gothmog). Never seemed worth it to me, but I definitely need to try something different!

Hmm. Maybe a slight change after taking the Pelennor settlements:

Turn 4: Step 3, take Amon Din and Lossarnach for the ninth action die. Start building Catapults. Maneuver armies in Farmlands to pounce on Riders of Rohan once they arrive.

On average, 5 dice will give me 1 hit on the gates per army action die used. (it never does, but that's just bad luck). Six army dice should knock the gates down or seriously weaken it. Grond will help but it's not a definite draw.

So, six army action dice in two turns if I'm lucky, probably three. I'll definitely have to deal with Rohan, and probably Aragorn as well before the gate comes down. Four of my armies to crush the two Rohan armies, then two or three to hold back Aragorn. All the while, I'm bombarding the gates with my army action dice. But I'll need some of the army action dice for combined attacks against the riders! This may draw it out another turn. Or two. I see the end of the fate track getting closer...

I'll have to try this. I knew there was a vital part of the strategy I was missing and it just may be the catapults.

Once the gate has been smashed, the riders chopped up into mostly useless dog food, and Aragorn and his "men" lie bleeding in the southern farmlands, I'll combine attack Minas Tirith with three armies. One with Gothmog, 3 leaders, Trolls and Black Uruks at the gates, the other two on a wall, just to allow me to refresh my Troll maneuver token every other round. Rally as necessary after I take four or five hits to the main force.

Let's see, Aragorn arrives turn six (fate 12), that gives me about three turns to accomplish this, assuming the riders were dealt with before his arrival.

[genghissean]

If you have 7 full armies it should be a shoe in. Dont forget the WALL protects your troops as well. Hitting 1st round on a 6. I take every space inside pelennor except South City Wall and North Rammas. Catapults hit on a 5 or 6, unlike an army which always only hits the gates with 6. The Vegas odds on rolling 5 dice (the max. thus build 1 catapult and 1 tower on your third muster) are 1.67 hits. Grond with the WK often gets me 4 hits, then I dont bother with Cats. A couple of cave trolls will usually finish it off. ARAGORN! Ha! I have slautered him EVERY game. AS soon as he attaks Harland I retreat to South City Wall. Then I 3 army attack him (4 if I have a army in south road). If he retreats, fine, he will be attacking from accross the wall from now on. Then finish him with the South road army. Also, I never have 9 dice. I find I waste to many dice getting Lossarnach, and I dont like defending Amon Din (no protection). If you have Corsairs, then its great getting an army from Emys to Luyas and then attack Losarnach. Then, when Aragorn retreats to Luays he is totally trapped, no retreat. (insert deep, disturbing evil laughter!!!!) I NEVER attack the 10 wall. When the gate army is finished I move in the next from townlands and then finish MT with my lone tower attack. (by the way build your last CAT in Harlond cuz you lose it when Aragorn attacks. I save musters at the end to rally my armies with the trolls. PS. I usually take position 1, 3 times. This gives me a 50% chance of getting the 0. And you should get the 2nd 0 as well. Thats 2 extra turns. As well, you are bound to get an X with only 1 move. Thus you should easily have 10 turns. If in the end there are still some 1's, and its close, you may take position 1 anyways just to make sure you get an extra turn. I won a close one that way.

[genghissean]

Also, pay attention to units. eg. I attack Osgiliath with 1or2 trolls plus Black Uruks. If FP has 1 horse, you get Generic card. 5 Easterlings also work. I combine 2 Eli's and 3 Serpent riders for Rohan. Thus the FP never get G cards. And if you have Mamuth card played, those Eli's will trompel over them horses with NO maneuver tokens.

[godrob]

I'm really itching to try this strategy now. I guess Aragorn always bothered me because I was wasting forces on the gate trying to bring it down before Rohan arrived.

Agreed with the assault on Osgiliath. Plus I take position 2 on turn one to get the Witch-King, 2 Leaders, and 2 definite musters (character dice) in all five recruiting areas. Since I can only move four armies with a third character die, I usually try to move the Gorgoroth troops into Minas Morgul anyway giving me at least 1 Troll and 3 Black Uruks.

Do you also move the Troll from Udun all the way down to Minas Morgul before attacking? Otherwise, I don't see another way to get a Troll into that attacking army. I usually use the army in Udun (with the Troll) to go through the Black Gate and reinforce the Men from the East attacking Cair Andros. They will combine with the leftover forces to form one good army to go take Amon Din, leaving an Easterling Infantry behind to hold the island.

Good point on the 1.67 average, but when do your five dice "on average" EVER roll more than 1 hit? Only the Free Peoples player is that lucky. Never the shadow. Don't forget the Bastions card.

As for the 3rd turn of position one, I've tried that a few times in the past before deciding on my rushing strategy. Even tried 6 turns my first game, cause I really like the Darkness cards. They're almost all good. One game, I decided to take it until I drew the "Denethor" card, and it took five turns. I was barely across the river by that time!

Anyway, thanks again for the help. I'll pull the game out this weekend and try it again. Watch for my new thread entitled "Help! I can't win as the Free Peoples in Gondor!"

[genghissean]

I never move the troll army down, black gate as well, you must have to North armies. If on the 1st turn I rolled bad, ie.no attack or something or whatever did not take Osigiliath, and instead put a 0 in the draw pile, I might take 3 and put another troll in S. army to make sure Oz goes down and try to wipe it out, and if lucky move into pelenor asap. the with 8 dice I recruit and try to get my armies all accross the river and wait for the recruites to rush into their certain deaths. I am not a big fan of the Darkness cards in this scenario cuz its possible for them to be taken away by the 3rd turn. In Rohan they are amazing, if you get the extra die at the beginning, you will probably have it until near the end. (Too easy playing the shadow in Rohan). If I can get that 0 in there I am happy, the extra die 2nd card is a great bonus. If you have skype we could play online. And I seem to do alright whenever I attack the gate. With Grond and WK average 4 (guted my opponent once with 5).