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Post by eumaies on Jun 28, 2007 2:40:07 GMT 1
I agree with magicgeek 100%. The ents are an essential no-brainer and they have to be done first.
Shutting down saruman is huge and the threat-factor for bad-guy strongholds creates a huge uncertainty for dol goldur, moria, and isengard, as well as re-capture potential of lost good-guy strongholds.
Actually, one of my biggest beefs with the expansion is that this move is so important that you really have no other choice -- and while I love the way the ents operate, the fact that it's a necessity to cancel saruman early is a huge dissapointment. I like games with options, and the expansion in some cases has fewer.
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Veldrin
Lord of the Nazgûl
Posts: 1,305
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Post by Veldrin on Jun 28, 2007 7:36:46 GMT 1
I have to disagree with you. In my 75+ games with the expansion the Ents only show up in about 50% of the games.
Sometimes the dice/cards are unfavourable and sometimes there simply is more important stuff to do.
PLaying against a FP player who "always" summons the Ents is easily countered since you will go for either an early DEW-attack or a Lorien rush.
[glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]
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Post by eumaies on Jun 28, 2007 16:15:27 GMT 1
in the course of setting up the ents, you drop off companions in lorien. assuming a lorien rush, you also have time to build trebuchet in lorien to boost the defense.
a strike on lorien is unreliable if it contains only one stack of 10 troops, so you're basically talking about moving a second into position. this takes time, and you can easily miss your window of easy attacking.
the fact that getting the ents into play = getting aragorn and companions into play + two dice means it's something you pretty much want to do anyway. There's no way you can't afford 2 dice to threaten every shadow army/stronghold in the middle board and shut down the voice of saruman.
playing without the ents is like handing saruman a huge boost in wargs as well as +5 troops capacity that they no longer need to keep in isengard on the defensive.
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Post by mrweasely on Jun 29, 2007 16:48:34 GMT 1
I agree with Veldrin. I usually take a pass on the Ents. Instead I sink the muster into the North's politics or Lorien defense.
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Post by genghissean on Nov 15, 2007 14:53:11 GMT 1
I agree with Mr. weasely. The ents should start off with at least two ents, or be alowed to muster normally. (perhaps a bit too powerful). Ents was my favourite card pre xpac, now its like, okay waste an entire ent killing one wildman in fords, and possibly TWO if you're unlucky, and then what. If you are lucky to get two cards back to back, AND Saurman mustered VOX 1 or twice, THEN you can do some damage on an unexpecting Gol Gadur or something. Other than that, USELSESS.
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Post by gandalfrocks on Nov 24, 2007 0:21:11 GMT 1
Usually I won't have the dice to bring in the Ents. I usually face a Military Blitz, which means that on every turn after turns 1 and maybe 2 I can put the musters to so much better use bolstering my defense in threatened areas. Plus, Rohan is so weak it usually falls by at least turn 3, and then they plant guys in Orthanc and the fords to burn off musters that they get too many of.
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Post by oldshortsnout on Oct 28, 2009 21:47:05 GMT 1
I found this game later than most and enter discussions when they seem closed, but never mind, I just want to check if I'm on the right track.
I don't really agree with the starting argument that more than one ent card "never happens". You can expect at least some 10 character cards in a typical game. Even if military blitz competes with a running FSP (7-8 turns) some extra cards may come from palantirs or Gandalf the Guide. In a 10 character card game, the probability of getting at least 2 ent cards is 21/65 ~ 1/3.
In all games, the probability of getting at least 1 ent card in the first 3 drawn character cards is 829/2600 ~1/3.
In those games, the probability of getting a 2nd ent card among, say, the next 7 drawn character cards, is 133/253 > 50%.
When you get an early ent card, one idea is therefore to play it without really using the ents, just putting them in Fangorn. The ent card no longer blocks your hand, and the SA player must take into account the 50%-or-so risk that the ents awake with 2 more leafy friends. The possibility of 4 ents are a threat to Moria, Dol Guldur and Orthanc, and can slow down SA considerably. Thus, the two ents in Fangorn do some good even if the 2nd ent card never comes.
Ents attacking Moria or Dol Guldur is of little use unless FP has troops nearby ready to move in. Orthanc is a more interesting target, since losing Saruman is a big blow to SA, even if Orthanc is repopulated with SA units. An alternative when playing the first ent card is to "run to the Ford": move 1 ent to the Fords of Isen and let the other stay in Fangorn, awaiting more of his kind. Then it is too late for Saruman to put a lone unit in Fords of Isen as protection, and he must be bold to ignore the rather big risk of a triple ent attack.
In summary: an early ent card can be a really useful intimidator, even if the ents are not really acting. Veldrin's much trusted experience that good play will bring out the ents in roughly 50% of the games seems very reasonable, to a novice like me.
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Veldrin
Lord of the Nazgûl
Posts: 1,305
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Post by Veldrin on Oct 28, 2009 21:57:06 GMT 1
In summary: an early ent card can be a really useful intimidator, even if the ents are not really acting. Veldrin's much trusted experience that good play will bring out the ents in roughly 50% of the games seems very reasonable, to a novice like me.Thank you! [glow=green,2,300]Veldrin[/glow]
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Post by kwojtasz on Nov 19, 2009 20:40:18 GMT 1
interesting with the early Ent card play. albeit, you would need Gandalf the White active before being able to play the card, which is the more difficult pull usually.
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